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cezanne
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 58
Location: Graz, Austria
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 Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2003 4:09 pm Post subject: Support for different language versions |
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I am not at all sure whether this topic fits into this subforum, but I could not find a more suitable place.
The feature that I am missing the most in all existing geocaching sites which offer cache data bases is that none of them offers support for several languages. Certainly it is possible to write the different versions of the cache description one after the other, or to switch between the languages after each paragraph or sentence (in case of short descriptions).
I am not happy with these alternatives for several reasons. I would prefer by far a solution where the different language versions are stored separately and the user has the possibility to choose among the offered languages his favourite one. This would have a lot of advantages. Let me just mention some of them
More economical usage of paper, printer ink (toner) for those who are creating print-outs of the cache description.
Saving storage space on PDAs (for those who take electronic versions of the cache descriptions with them).
One could search automatically for caches with a description in a certain language.
The cache descriptions become easier to read if only one language is used in the text one is looking at.
I have to admit, however, that I do have no idea whether any type of support for different languages can be implemented in a realistic way and how much additional effort that would cause. I am well aware of the fact that the automatic integration of existing data in a system which offers support for multi-lingual descriptions would not be that easy as there exists no guideline for the order of the languages. The only way-out would be to ask the owners of caches to make the necessary modifications manually in case they offer multiple language versions. Personally, I would be highly motivated to take such an effort for my own caches.
As the current situation is regarded, I have even more troubles offering multi-lingual caches at nc.com than at gc.com (at the latter site I only have occasional problems with some length restrictions as I need at least twice as much space if I write in more than language). At nc.com I encounter also serious difficulties with the hints. As nc.com only allows 5 clues and apparently does not offer the possibility of leaving some part of the hint section un-encrypted, this is a serious restriction for multicaches offered in at least two languages. 2 hints per language are fine, but then the troubles start. I'd appreciate very much if the opencaching project would pay more attention to the fact that the geocaching community is an international community.
Cezanne
Last edited by cezanne on Fri Oct 10, 2003 3:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Renegade Knight
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 151
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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This topic has come up. I think it's possible to "Skin" a site in several languages. One drawback is that each site improvement requires changes on as many pages as you have language skins.
The next question becomes how many languages do we really want to support?
Alternately we can have one database and several sites with a national permission to maintain the database and there is no need for a skin. Each national site or language site has it's own interface and sponsors it's own improvements. The drawback here is that the local interface will start to vary over time and there will be no standardization. That may or may not be a good thing.
There are a lot of ways to tackle this problem. It’s worth considering as we move forward with building the site. It’s worth throwing out ideas right now so we have something to consider. |
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cezanne
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 58
Location: Graz, Austria
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| Renegade Knight wrote: | This topic has come up. I think it's possible to "Skin" a site in several languages. One drawback is that each site improvement requires changes on as many pages as you have language skins.
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I guess I did not manage to make my point clear. I was asking for something rather different at least if I understood your reply correctly.
I am not talking about the interface of the system (English is perfect for me, and the people in Germany who seem to have a big demand for a German interface, will make one anyway.)
What I meant is something which should not be too much work and needs no updates at all. I just would like to have the following
a possibility to enter the different language versions of my own cache descriptions into separate parts of a submission form
a possibility to tell the system to display only one of the language versions of a cache description if more than one is supplied by the cache owner.
I did not mean that if, say my German version is displayed, the system should swith over to a German interface (personally, I would not even like that it would force me to check my German versions using a German interface which I would not appreciate at all).
If a cache description is several pages long, it is quite annoying if its size is increased by a factor of 2 or 3 just because there is no possibility to display only one language at one time. The same is true for the hint section. If the language versions are separated, then just the matching hints need to be displayed.
I am aware of the fact that most cahes are from English speaking countries and are typically described in only one language. The problems I am facing arise in countries with another language.
Have I been now clearer?
Cezanne |
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Renegade Knight
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 151
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 11:16 am Post subject: |
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That I didn't think of. Being able to list your cache in different languages.
It's a good point. Thanks. |
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theplank
Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 4
Location: Vienna, Austria
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:28 am Post subject: |
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I completely agree with cézanne.
Just to add some spice: what about automatic translation?
Or in good old german:
"ich bin vollständig mit cézanne. gerade einverstanden, irgendein Gewürz zu addieren: was über automatische Übersetzung? (copyright: babel fish)
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Post rabiem risu. (Childerich von Bartenbruch) |
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amnesius
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 147
Location: ./earth/europe/*
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| theplank wrote: |
Just to add some spice: what about automatic translation?
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This spice stinks. The reason why is hidden in your Babelfish'd answer.. 
-Stefan
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cezanne
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 58
Location: Graz, Austria
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| theplank wrote: |
Just to add some spice: what about automatic translation?
Or in good old german:
"ich bin vollständig mit cézanne. gerade einverstanden, irgendein Gewürz zu addieren: was über automatische Übersetzung? (copyright: babel fish) |
I guess you should have added an ironic smilie for those who cannot read German and are not able to see themselves that the result of the automatic translation can be used to make people laugh, but not for helping them to understand the original meaning.
The different word order in German and English makes it really difficult to produce automatic translations which can at least be used to guess the original meaning. I have seen some automatically translated cache descriptions in Germany, but even as a native speaker of German I had sometimes no clue about the meaning of the English version without looking at the German one.
Cezanne |
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Renegade Knight
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 151
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Machine translations are why I have not posted in the German speaking forums. The one post I wanted to do, I translated to German then back to English. Then I fell out of my chair laughing. I didn't post. |
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theplank
Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 4
Location: Vienna, Austria
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| Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:50 am Post subject: |
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hi friends,
just try not to get your knickers in a twist.
read childerich's lips: post ... risu >>>  .
another one: "der babel fisch beginnt am kopf zu stinken."
round one: "babel the fish begins to stink at the head. "
round two: "Babel, das der Fisch anfängt, am Kopf zu stinken."
round three: "Babel, which the fish begins to stink at the head."
round four: "Babel, das der Fisch anfängt, am Kopf zu stinken."
consistency from round two on!
just to make sure to be on the secure side of the river:
the plank from austria
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Post rabiem risu. (Childerich von Bartenbruch) |
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TEAM 360
Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Posts: 27
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Good point about having it available in another language. I just got done perusing www.geocaching.ru (Russia). |
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hmarq
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 351
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| TEAM 360 wrote: | | Good point about having it available in another language. I just got done perusing www.geocaching.ru (Russia). |
I think we've finally ended with different nodes handling the language issue ... if we syndicate the data, they can do the front end stuff ... |
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GeoGerard
Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 75
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 6:45 pm Post subject: Dutch Hub |
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This is something I've posted before.
My question was: can any website be turned into a opencaching hub?
If so, I am willing to make a Dutch version.
| hmarq wrote: | | TEAM 360 wrote: | | Good point about having it available in another language. I just got done perusing www.geocaching.ru (Russia). |
I think we've finally ended with different nodes handling the language issue ... if we syndicate the data, they can do the front end stuff ... |
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