| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
TEAM 360
Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Posts: 27
Location: Arizona
|
 Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 9:03 am Post subject: Navicache pulling back? |
 |
|
From Navicache board today, discussing access to their cache data:
"GC.com makes it a little more difficult as it is a feature reserved for their "Premium" subscibers (and even then a max 500 caches can be pulled at a time). While not a charge type service, due to some abuses we also will be placing some controls and limits on the retrieval in the near future. Seems that some are able to read data but not the TOU." |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
hmarq
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 351
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 9:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| That would be disappointing, yet at the same time, I got that same message when I was talking/emailing with them. It's a shame, but it's their site and their terms. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CoyoteRed
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Posts: 220
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 12:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Okay, just what does that suppose to mean?
If it's not bandwidth, then what?
Maybe, it's been a good thing that I've been too lazy to list my caches with them.
CR
_________________
"...been know to miss the finer points." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Renegade Knight
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 151
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 2:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Growing pains. Protection of data. The same issues OC faces. Though the OC answers to the problem appear to be different. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CoyoteRed
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Posts: 220
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 4:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Is this going to be one those things that people are going to wrap their arms around and say, "Mine, only mine?"
Hmarq, you have my permission to pull the data from my caches on gc.com if you want it. It's my data and I can do what I wish with it. Pull it and add it your list. For now, link it back to gc.com.
Here's the list.
Who else gives him permission to do the same with their's?
One of these days I'll put my independant list, but so much to do...
CR
_________________
"...been know to miss the finer points." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TEAM 360
Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Posts: 27
Location: Arizona
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 4:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Post my caches anywhere you feel like...the more sites I can get the info onto, the better, isn't that what a cacher wants, ANYHOW? It's really a no-brainer!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Renegade Knight
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 151
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There is a limit on what should be shared. Emails, NO. Cache names, screen names, coordinates, etc. Sure the goal is stats & maps etc. among things and you need that.
Every site has a limit they are willing to allow. OC's limit is more open (no pun intented) than other sites, GC's is more closed.
That Navicache is pulling in the freedom of access just shows that whatever your line is, you need a means to keep people from crossing it. Your members should know what the line is and that you can and will defend it or you will lose their trust.
I swear we had a debate along these lines a few month ago! My angle what that only trusted sites should have access and all of them should ask, then we could limit it to geocaching organizations and trusted individuals. Others thought that access all the time with no restrictions on who was the way to go.
Just my two bits. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scout
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 235
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 6:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Renegade Knight wrote: | | I swear we had a debate along these lines a few month ago! |
See this thread. The licenses used in the open source software community are the guide. No requiring that geocachers beg someone for access to data created by geocachers as a whole. No denying geocachers access to data created by the community as a whole because some gatekeeper doesn't trust someone else. No denying landowners the right to keep track of what caches have been placed on their land. Instead, an open licensing system that ensures that the data remains open to the whole community, the community that filled the database in the first place.
_________________
Scout http://GPSgames.org
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hmarq
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 351
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 6:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for digging up that thread Scout, saves me from looking for it. The only place where I have to side with RK here is with parts of the user record ... email and password, that was another long diatribe, largely between me and the .de guys ... I don't envision just sending the user records to anyone that asks, but everything else, yep, that's the whole point 
I haven't found anything better than the design science lisence either ... that'll probably be from wence we start. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PC Medic
Joined: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 7
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| hmarq wrote: | | That would be disappointing, yet at the same time, I got that same message when I was talking/emailing with them. It's a shame, but it's their site and their terms. |
Could you please tell me who from Navicache gave you any such message? Certainly was not I, as you were given full permission by me to use the data according to the TOU. You said this was no problem and you fully understood.
Part of that agreement stated that the data if republished was to carry a credit of source and that it was not to be altered or combined with outside data or displayed in such a manner that may intentionally or unintentionally confuse the viewer as to
its original origin.
Yes, it is a shame, but I thought you understood.
PC Medic
Team Navicache |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GeoGerard
Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 75
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PC Medic
Joined: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 7
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Renegade Knight wrote: | | There is a limit on what should be shared. Emails, NO. Cache names, screen names, coordinates, etc. Sure the goal is stats & maps etc. among things and you need that. |
Exactly on target here. Some things are just not 'shareable'
[quote]Every site has a limit they are willing to allow. OC's limit is more open (no pun intented) than other sites, GC's is more closed.[quote]
Again on target. OC's limit may also be unacheivable with the current approach.
| Quote: |
That Navicache is pulling in the freedom of access just shows that whatever your line is, you need a means to keep people from crossing it. Your members should know what the line is and that you can and will defend it or you will lose their trust. |
Again an excellent point, though I would like to point out that any 'pulling in' at this point has been selective. If you ask permission to use something for a specific purpose, and get permission for that purpose under set conditions, then it would be rasonable to expect that you can be trusted to follow the conditions.
PC Medic
Team Navicache |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PC Medic
Joined: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 7
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
No new news here  , this same information has been available in our own forums for over a year.
Now just remember to read the Terms Of Use at the top and the additional terms it refers to.
PC Medic
Team Navicache |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Renegade Knight
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 151
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 10:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Scout wrote: | | ...Instead, an open licensing system that ensures that the data remains open to the whole community, the community that filled the database in the first place. |
Caches are placed by individuals. The database is filled one cache and one log at a time. You, CoyoteRed and so forth have all claimed very strong individual rights to your caches.
The data you are not wanting to beg for (excellent use of an attention getting word by the way) has to be given to the public domain so to speak by each of those individuals. Otherwise you can't let anyone plug into the opencaching network who wants to. Who should be able to plug into the nework is another problem to solve. My current impression is that anyone with enough talent to make a website is "in".
Alternatly you can as a site say you will only give the data up for geocaching related purposes. Then the begging begins since you now have an obligation to your members/cache owners to ensure that you are in fact only giving the data out for use to geocaching organizations like you said you would.
Remember I'm not proposing anything. Just pointing out options and reality. None of these decisions have been made by the organization. Though we do have a team in place to start laying it all out. Some of these decisions have been made by the tech effort. Since the site is getting close to going online the gaps will be filled soon enough. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hmarq
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 351
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 11:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Renegade Knight wrote: |
The data you are not wanting to beg for (excellent use of an attention getting word by the way) has to be given to the public domain so to speak by each of those individuals. Otherwise you can't let anyone plug into the opencaching network who wants to. Who should be able to plug into the nework is another problem to solve. My current impression is that anyone with enough talent to make a website is "in".
|
The notion of the Design Science License isn't public domain, however it gives the same permissions, you retain copyright, but explicitly grant permission to redistribute ... from the license ...
0. PREAMBLE.
Copyright law gives certain exclusive rights to the author of a work,
including the rights to copy, modify and distribute the work (the
"reproductive," "adaptative," and "distribution" rights).
The idea of "copyleft" is to willfully revoke the exclusivity of those
rights under certain terms and conditions, so that anyone can copy and
distribute the work or properly attributed derivative works, while all
copies remain under the same terms and conditions as the original.
The intent of this license is to be a general "copyleft" that can be
applied to any kind of work that has protection under copyright. This
license states those certain conditions under which a work published
under its terms may be copied, distributed, and modified.
Whereas "design science" is a strategy for the development of
artifacts as a way to reform the environment (not people) and
subsequently improve the universal standard of living, this Design
Science License was written and deployed as a strategy for promoting
the progress of science and art through reform of the environment.
Last edited by hmarq on Fri Nov 21, 2003 6:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search 
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile 
Log in to check your private messages 
Log in 
@ FREECACHING.NL