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Geocaching by the community, for the community
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hmarq
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 351
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 Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 2:26 pm Post subject: Play with searches .... |
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There's still tweaking to do, but this stuff is ready 'enough' for others to have a look to test for accuracy and comment on function.
Some guiding thoughts.
1. The cache detail page isn't there yet, so if you click on a search set, you'll get a 'module' error. The idea is to look at the searching capabilities and then the options for sorting/radius expansion.
2. The design while different is still minimal, if you don't like it, get a CSS book, do a 'view source' on the page, save it, and make it better - through CSS ... the pages are all plain xhtml. Certainly comments on the markup are welcome if needed to support.
3. All the data is from navicache and has no screen on it other than falling within the radius, so there are probably some retired/archived ones in there. That will be more born out when the detail page goes up and you can see the log info.
4. The export function for gpx/loc isn't written yet, so don't look for it 
5. Searching by place name in a country other than US is painfully slow. I have to figure out how to fix that ...
I'll be moving on to the cache detail display next, then on to the user registration and profile pages, then to the enter a cache page, then to the log a cache page ... somewhere in there I'll add the gpx/loc export and some filtering options to the cache summary page.
Have fun, comments welcome.
here ... that's where it's at. |
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Renegade Knight
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 151
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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Hell, it works.
Since all countries have a form of zip code can it be added to search by that in each country? Maybe by having a default country that can be changed but normally isn't? 999 out of 1000 searches I'd stick with the USA. However in Europe where the countries are closer together it might get used more often.
On Placenames, a search for a town 25 miles from caches (that are in the database) gives no results. However using the closer town that they are listed for does show the caches. So it would appear that the caches are associated with towns directly and not by proximity.
Those are my two initial comments. |
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hmarq
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 351
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Renegade Knight wrote: | Hell, it works.
Since all countries have a form of zip code can it be added to search by that in each country? Maybe by having a default country that can be changed but normally isn't? 999 out of 1000 searches I'd stick with the USA. However in Europe where the countries are closer together it might get used more often.
On Placenames, a search for a town 25 miles from caches (that are in the database) gives no results. However using the closer town that they are listed for does show the caches. So it would appear that the caches are associated with towns directly and not by proximity.
Those are my two initial comments. |
Actually the opposite ... right now everything up there is done by proximity. The starting point is derived from another table that is either from USGS for the US or NIMA for the international stuff ... I'm only as good as the data they provide. Each point is given a lat and a lon value, I do the lookup based on the name and give the possible hits ... from there it's passed to the proximity engine. If you give me what you're searching on I'll see what's what.
As for the international zip equivalent ... sure, great, all for it ... but I need the source of the data. I got that for the US from the 2000 census data ... if someone has a source for a country that has countryid, zipequiv, lat, lon ... I can add it, it's a matter of finding the data *for free* |
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TEAM 360
Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Posts: 27
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| The search function is also listing archived caches, as well as active ones, without differentiating between the two. Just to let you know. |
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hmarq
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 351
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| TEAM 360 wrote: | | The search function is also listing archived caches, as well as active ones, without differentiating between the two. Just to let you know. |
Yeah, I need to add the status field to the display. The archived flag will be a user preference as to whether you see them or not. |
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hmarq
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 351
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| OK, I had a few requests to make it more gc.com like ... so it's up now. |
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tc-rick
Joined: 17 Sep 2003
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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That reverse video cyan has to go.
Also, you need more dates. There are 5 relevant dates associated with each cache that I can think of:
- Hidden
- Last found
- Last logged (found, notfound, or just a note)
- Last time I found it.
- Last time I logged it.
One annoyance of gc.com is that they don't display the date the cache was last logged. You have to click/scrape on the web page link to discover that.
-Rick
geo.rkkda.com |
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hmarq
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 351
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| tc-rick wrote: | That reverse video cyan has to go.
Also, you need more dates. There are 5 relevant dates associated with each cache that I can think of:
- Hidden
- Last found
- Last logged (found, notfound, or just a note)
- Last time I found it.
- Last time I logged it.
One annoyance of gc.com is that they don't display the date the cache was last logged. You have to click/scrape on the web page link to discover that.
-Rick
geo.rkkda.com |
Folks seem to love or hate that cyan  I've killed it off and just made it bold, but some folks really liked the highlighting of the current sort field.
As for the other dates, I suppose you can, though with all that, it surely needs to be a 3 line listing and being cluttered looking. Last found and 'found by me' are probably useful, I'm not so sure about the logged/activity ones. Of course since I don't have the userstuff finished yet so I wouldn't have the 'found by me' data yet.
What do others think? |
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CoyoteRed
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Posts: 220
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 7:15 am Post subject: |
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Some of the dates mentioned above is really irrelevant.
Unless the cache is very new, displaying the date placed tells much of nothing. Who cares if it's been out a month or three years?
Date last logged tells me nothing either as it could be a DNF or someone making a comment.
Displaying dates of when I last found the cache assumes there is a mechanism that allows the listing site to know if you've found the cache.
Don't mean to sound harsh, but we need to step away from the paradigm that gc.com created. If this takes off, there will be multiple listing sites. Some will not have facilites to log. Quite frankly, it's the cache finder's responsibility to keep track of their finds.
About the only useful date I think is last found.
I'd rather not clutter up the list with chaffe I have to wade through to see what I want to see.
CR
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"...been know to miss the finer points." |
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hmarq
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 351
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| CoyoteRed wrote: | Some of the dates mentioned above is really irrelevant.
Unless the cache is very new, displaying the date placed tells much of nothing. Who cares if it's been out a month or three years?
Date last logged tells me nothing either as it could be a DNF or someone making a comment.
Displaying dates of when I last found the cache assumes there is a mechanism that allows the listing site to know if you've found the cache.
Don't mean to sound harsh, but we need to step away from the paradigm that gc.com created. If this takes off, there will be multiple listing sites. Some will not have facilites to log. Quite frankly, it's the cache finder's responsibility to keep track of their finds.
About the only useful date I think is last found.
I'd rather not clutter up the list with chaffe I have to wade through to see what I want to see.
CR |
I agree with the no clutter/chaffe comment. I think last 'found' is more valuable than last logged/activity, which as you point out could be a DNF or note.
I'm curious though, shouldn't somone be able to log a cache here? ... even if it's an offsite one? If yes, then the "I found" can and would be meaningful, though you're correct in that it would/could only be meaningful for users that we know about. |
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CoyoteRed
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Posts: 220
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 10:32 am Post subject: |
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Sure, people can log here. My point was cluttering up the results list with data that may or may not be complete because not everyone will be logging here.
In order to have a complete accounting of all of the logs from all of listing sites for a particular cache would probably be pretty difficult. Gathering cache lists and logs that go with that cache, and then keeping it all straight, would be a serious chore. The only way to prevent that would to only allow logs on the same site that hosts the cache itself.
Then the search site would not only have to keep up with the cache listing, but each log for that cache!
I'm sure it could be done. I'm just wondering if it's something that we should be worrying about right now.
Me, I'd rather see a simple list of caches with basic search capabilites get off the ground. I just want to know what caches are out there.
CR
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"...been know to miss the finer points." |
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hmarq
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 351
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| CoyoteRed wrote: |
Me, I'd rather see a simple list of caches with basic search capabilites get off the ground. I just want to know what caches are out there.
CR |
I think you'll get your wish. Though once the other nodes/replication stuff gets worked out, having logs be visible, albiet delayed, shouldn't be too big an issue.
Something like the navicache data set is a little different, I don't think they want to play in a fully open fashion, so I think there in addition to linking to them like an offsite cache type, logs might also have to be referred back there and then just refreshed here with their extract .... that's just me thinking out loud at this point, but I figured it was worth mentioning. |
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tc-rick
Joined: 17 Sep 2003
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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There is no way to know if you need to read/download/print (depending on how you like to work) the cache page again if all you have is the last found date. At a minimum, you need to flag the entry if the last logged date is newer than the last found date.
There are other reasons for last logged, such as on a rainy day being able to sort by and browse the most recently logged caches, whether they were finds or not. Sometimes the DNF log entries are the most fun tlo read.
If you can't log here at all, then of course my point is moot. But I doubt you will get many people to use this site without the community of the log entries. And of course the log entries need to replicate across all opencaching systems, Navicache, and eventually gc.com as well (when they come to their senses).
-Rick |
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Scout
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 235
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| hmarq wrote: | | Something like the navicache data set is a little different, I don't think they want to play in a fully open fashion, so I think there in addition to linking to them like an offsite cache type, logs might also have to be referred back there and then just refreshed here with their extract. |
I think you are spot on. Think of Navicache the same as privately-listed caches. The cache data does not get replicated, only a link to Navicache. Navicache might get some extra traffic that way, but they'll probably lose more, because people will learn that open sites have more cache listings and gradually migrate there.
I'm hoping that the replication system will allow players to log caches on any site and have the logs be replicated, rather than force players to log only on the originating site of a cache. In fact, in general, I hope the network makes it pretty much irrelevant which site was the originating hosting site for any individual cache or which site is used for logging by different players.
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dboggny
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Posts: 12
Location: Forest Hills, Queens, NYC, USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:48 am Post subject: huh? |
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| i am not that smart so could someone point me towards the search page? |
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