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hmarq
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 351
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 Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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OK, I know the threads are there, but I don't have the time at the moment to find them .... but as I recall, the whole point of the 'network' of nodes was so that individual sites could do things in their native language and *not* do multi language on any one site ...
You simply can't 'skin' based on language the way you can look and feel with CSS ... there is a lot of work involved. |
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nici-
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 199
Location: Hürth near Cologne, Germany
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| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| hmarq wrote: | | but as I recall, the whole point of the 'network' of nodes was so that individual sites could do things in their native language and *not* do multi language on any one site ... |
That's how I understood the idea!
And as for the language of the cache description: Leave it to the cachers. Naturally cachers would like to get visitors at their caches. That's why e.g. a lot of (german) cachers add english descriptions to their german version. At least those, that can do so easily and others, who have problems with english try to do so too. Who doesn't know english (or another language that might be applicable, like dutch for caches at the border to the netherlands and so on), will not be able to do so. So what? Set this cachers under pressure 'you MUST'? There is no rule that tells cache owner to make their caches huntable for _everyone_. A lot of caches can't be done with small children. Others can only be done by people who can climb. And so on.
Let it up to the cachers, let's common sense rule at this point.
Gosh, why must there be these calls for 'rules' for almost _everything_? If people want to give their cache description in esperanto only - ok. I won't be able to do these caches. It won't kill me.
nici-
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CoyoteRed
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Posts: 220
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| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 9:51 am Post subject: |
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While not a programer, and I don't see a need have a skinable site right off the bat, but I know there are sites out there that are skinable. I believe PHPnuke has language skins. The list goes from there.
I'm only presenting this as a way for people in lanuage dense areas like Europe to present multilanguage sites.
I fully understand that most sites will be regional, but if opencaching to catch on it needs to have as broad a language set as possible. The core of the site, with explainations, tutorials, and whatnot could be multilingual. All you have to do is make it skinable and offer the templates for people to translate.
Alternatively, you could offer up the PHP or ASP files for translation. Then it could be default.asp, frdefault.asp, rudefault.asp, etc. Only thing is the security aspect of the code has to be seperate from the frontend.
That way, the extra languages could be brought online at anytime. A simple #include in the appropriate place could update the sections that shows what lanuages are available.
CR
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cezanne
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 58
Location: Graz, Austria
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| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| nici- wrote: |
And as for the language of the cache description: Leave it to the cachers.
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There will not be many people out there having any objections in that regard.
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Naturally cachers would like to get visitors at their caches. That's why e.g. a lot of (german) cachers add english descriptions to their german version. At least those, that can do so easily
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I do not fully agree. I know much more cachers whose English is by far sufficient and who do not offer English versions. The reasons are numerous.
In the Netherlands, for example, almost all cachers, are perfectly able to offer English versions, but the majority of caches is available only in Dutch. One of the reasons for that is that the people who started geocaching there decided to offer only one language because they feel that multilingual descriptions have the tendency to become long as so far no cache data base allows to separate the languages. In their effort to remove potential barriers for later geocachers who are not that fluent in English, they decided to choose Dutch instead of English as the single language used.
In Germany, I often came across the argument that the caches in region X are visited only by cachers who understand German. I do not like arguments of that type because it is a vicious cycle. If caches are available only in German, they will hardly get visitors not being able to understand German. Of course, the majority of visitors will be from Germany, but even if an English version is helpful for one out of 50 (or even 100) visitors, it is clearly worth the effort.
I did caches in Denmark which are not all typical tourist caches and I was very happy that in Denmark (and also in the rest of Scnadinavia) it is almost standard to offer English cache descriptions. (The level of proficiency in English in Finland, for example, is certainly not higher than that in the Netherlands.)
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Set this cachers under pressure 'you MUST'?
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Of course *not*! Who did talk about such a pressure?
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There is no rule that tells
cache owner to make their caches huntable for _everyone_.
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Fortunately, there is no such rule!
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A lot of caches can't be done with small children. Others can only be done by people who can climb. And so on.
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That's perfectly fine. Life is interesting because people differ in many respects from each other. It is no secret that are cannot climb, but appreciate the existence of climbing caches.
But there is an important difference between the language issue and the examples you came up with. Refraining from offering a cache that needs climbing spoils the fun of those who like climbing.
But who suffers if one tries to encourage as many cachers as possible to offer their caches descriptions in several languages if they are able to do so? (and if the additional versions will probably be helpful to the other cachers).
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Let it up to the cachers, let's common sense rule at this point.
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Nobody asked for rules regarding the language issue. Everyone should be free to choose the languages he wants to. But what is wrong with trying to convince those that are able to offer, for example, an English version to do so? What is wrong with trying to investigate the reasons why cachers offer monolingual versions, and trying to remove barriers for multilingual versions?
Reading your posting gives me a little bit the impression that what you require comes closer to a rule than what I would like to have. (For example a rule like "It is forbidden to come up with recommendations because everyone is free to do whatever he wants and does not want to be confronted with recommendations or encouragements to change a certain behaviour if possible".
I am not in favour of any language policy. Still I think that the best option in a non English-speaking country is offering cache descriptions in at least two languages (English and the language(s) of the country under consideration). It is clear that this holds only for those who are able to do so. But we are very far from achieving this goal, in particular in some countries. What is wrong with having the ambition to come closer to this goal?
Cezanne |
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nici-
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 199
Location: Hürth near Cologne, Germany
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| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| cezanne wrote: |
I do not fully agree. I know much more cachers whose English is by far sufficient and who do not offer English versions. The reasons are numerous. |
And it's their decision.
| Quote: | | If caches are available only in German, they will hardly get visitors not being able to understand German. Of course, the majority of visitors will be from Germany, but even if an English version is helpful for one out of 50 (or even 100) visitors, it is clearly worth the effort. |
THAT's the decision of the cache owner, isn't it. One of my caches could have been set differently to enable more people to go for it. But we chose to plant it in the middle of an 17 km hard walk. It's ok for us that some people won't go there. It's cache owners business to advertise his cache. Some will see advantage in giving a second language. Some will not. So?
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Set this cachers under pressure 'you MUST'?
| Quote: | | Of course *not*! Who did talk about such a pressure? |
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Insisting all the time might put people under pressure.
| Quote: | | Fortunately, there is no such rule! |
Fine. So we agree on that and can stop this litany here.
| Quote: | | But there is an important difference between the language issue and the examples you came up with. |
No, we can't? *sigh*
| Quote: | | But what is wrong with trying to convince those that are able to offer, for example, an English version to do so? |
Nothing. But you're really riding this horse to death, cezanne. *very big sigh*
| Quote: | | example a rule like "It is forbidden to come up with recommendations because everyone is free to do whatever he wants and does not want to be confronted with recommendations or encouragements to change a certain behaviour if possible". |
Oh, come on! *p l e a s e*
Greetings
Nicola
aka nici-
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BS&T
Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 4
Location: SE Wisconsin
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| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2004 1:10 pm Post subject: Why not regional links? |
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I'm no programmer so all I can offer is that I am only interested in caches around my area. I would think that a Wisconsin site sharing data with surrounding states would be a good idea. Many of my nearest caches are across the state line. I'm not interested in anyone beyond unless I'm going on a trip.
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nose565
Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 6
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